Interview by Jocelle Koh with Yeo
Transcript by Grant Zeng

A full, unabridged interview with Asian-Australian singer-songwriter Yeo, who joins us for our ‘CRAZY’ episode of Everywhere and Nowhere as a guest announcer. We grilled him on his collaboration with the indomitable Kitty Purrnaz, his experiences as a veteran independent artist, and his love for cooking Southeast Asian dishes. Let’s pack snacks and make tracks!

-start of transcript-

Jocelle:
Okay welcome Yeo to Singapore and also to Say Lah studios’ Krysta for lending us her studio. How’s it being back even though you were just back like two months ago, a month ago?

Yeo:
Well, this time that didn’t lose my suitcase. I’m really happy to be back. Yeah, like, straightaway, I’ve already like already eaten so much good stuff.

Jocelle:
But anyway, I heard that you’re in town because you have like a new single coming up, right?

Yeo:
Yes, it’s coming out. When does this go to air?

Jocelle:
22nd?

Yeo:
All right. Okay. It should be out by then. By lunchtime.

Jocelle:
It’s out tomorrow?

Yeo:
[laughs] Yeah it’s tomorrow.

Jocelle:
Oh, my gosh. Okay. Yeah. So it’s your new single that’s out with Kitty Purrnaz, and I heard that she’s an old friend of yours, right?

Yeo:
Yes. Yes. We met a really long time ago in Darwin, Australia.

Jocelle:
Okay. Yeah, she’s based in Singapore now, but she used to live there?

Yeo:
Yeah, she’s been based in Singapore for a little while now. But I think for a long time, her family was back and forth between [the two places].

Jocelle:
I see, I see. I felt like you know, as a longtime fan, and I felt that it’s like a super different sound for you working together with her. So can you share a little bit about the references or direction that came to mind when you guys started working together on Little Secret?

Yeo:
Yeah, definitely. I think I’ve always just admired her production and, and pop songwriting. She’s really, really good at that. This was evident when I met her she was like 19, in Darwin. And she supported us at at the Railway Club, which is really cool…she’s just, she’s a kid but like, blew us all away with her production and her songs. And it turns out that she can sing really well. And, and so when we got together in the studio this was when this was my 2019 or something it just kind of took a little while to get going, because we hadn’t seen each other for a little while. I mean, I think we caught up before that. But yeah, she just she showed me a demo of of Little Secret. And it literally was like time travel. My brain went back to the 90s to old music that I grew up listening to and then yeah, I really vibed it and I was like, “Do you mind if I write a verse?” and like, because it was a really short demo, at the beginning and and she was okay with it. And and then yeah, we just kind of recorded it at all really quickly. at David’s house studio, home studio, and then then shelved it for the pandemic.

Jocelle:
Oh, it was that trip that you were here. Is that the first time that you’ve worked in the studio with her or have you guys like, jammed together?

Yeo:
We hadn’t jammed before then.

Jocelle:
So what was it like working with her in the studio? Like did you find out anything new about her style and like production?

Yeo:
I think it was really awesome to hear and see her process. And so she she just loaded up this Ableton session with all these different audio stems, and I was like, where did you get these sounds from and you know, so later I found out she told me that she like programmed some stuff and then she edited some loops from splice, which is this really big online, sound library […] she’s just got a real knack for finding tasteful things, and then manipulating it and then turning it into tracks. And you know, as people hear it, and they go, oh, did you do the production? And I’m like, Well, I did a lot of it. Like I did a lot of the kind of finishing of it, you know, I added some effects afterwards. And I definitely did a lot of arrangement, like pulling things out, and then repeating some things. And then I mixed it and stuff. But the original music tracks, like the guitar, the vocal samples, the drums, it’s all Kitty Purrnaz. And it’s really impressive. And it’s like, it’s it just sounds so fun and smooth at the same time.

Jocelle:
Yeah, yeah, I can totally tell like it was there was a lot of her in there. Even from the get go. And it was just so interesting to see you on that track as well with her. I’ve always wondered, what is it like when producers work together? Is the collaborative process any different than if you’re producing for another artist?

Yeo:
Definitely yeah.[…] I hope she agrees, but I feel like we, we both tried really hard to not get in each other’s way. Like, because we both know that we can both produce and that we both write songs, and we both also, well, she’s a better singer than me. But we can both write vocals and sing vocals as well. So it’s was there’s just a lot of respect, I think in the room when we were working together.

Jocelle:
That’s really nice. It’s really interesting too. Yeah, anyway, I think so this song was actually released under The Great Wave, which is Charlie’s DAO, or collective. Shout out to Charlie. […] So I think the great wave is doing some really interesting stuff. You know, using web3 to create like an entirely new model for like independent artists to grow and foster creation so and you’re someone who’s been independent for like, your entire career?

Yeo:
Almost. Yeah, there’s been like a couple of releases that have come out on a deal with a label. But even they were quite small.

Jocelle:
Have you like ever signed or like considered signing with a label for the long term as an artist?

Yeo:
The closest I came was when I was 19. I got approached by Island Records. After I self released my first album, they wanted to take the album offline. Redo the songs, repackage it, change my image and like, rerelease it? And I was like, “Nah, that sounds awful. ” I’m gonna go finish school first, and then like university first, and then, you know, I still want to, and I’ll hit you up. And I did actually, I went back to them. And the A&R person was like, you know when people avoid you? And it’s fine. I feel like, I missed my chance. But then looking back, I’m really glad that I didn’t get it. Because being independent…the amount of awful stories I’ve heard of people who are signed and hate it, like, yeah, I’m glad I’m independent.

Jocelle:
That’s good. I think it’s just like that, the music industry, and not necessarily in a good way, right? Like you always hear those stories of oh, that one chance, you have to, like, you know, fight for that chance, and get to that point, so that you can get that big break or something. But what is that big break going to cost you? You never know, right?

Yeo:
Yeah, there’s, I guess I hold such a high value on creative freedom. And then the moment someone else lends you money to be creative. The creative freedom is now split between you and them. And, you know, fair enough, that’s their money they deserve that. But often the line gets blurry and messy and, and, and then people’s feelings get hurt. It’s funny.

Jocelle:
True. Is that the main thing about being creative? I mean, being independent that works for you, or is there anything else that you really enjoy about being independent?

Yeo:
Now that I said it out loud, it’s like I’m really sensitive about, like, my creative being, so when the money person comes along and tells me they don’t like it, I get hurt.

Jocelle:
I feel you. But that’s the main thing.

Yeo:
Yeah. I just like to be at being in control. I guess it makes me a bit of a control freak.

Jocelle:
Aren’t we all though?

Yeo:
You want it done your way? Sometimes if you want it done your way, you got to do it yourself. So that’s where the DIY comes from, right?

Jocelle:
Definitely. I think, as someone who has been in the industry for like a while now, and I know you’ve like mentored younger artists and like songwriters and stuff. Do you have like, any suggestions or like any really important advice for like young artists who are just starting out?

Yeo:
The one that I always come back to? I’ve been asked before, like, what advice do I have, it’s to learn how to do as much as you can, by yourself before reaching out to other people to help you. Because if you learn the process, when you finally do get other people to be on your team, or to help you, they won’t, they can’t mess you over. Because you know the steps required to do something. So say, for example, if it’s PR, if you do your own PR for a little while, it’s hell, it’s terrible. It’s awful, but like, because you have to talk about yourself, and you have to like, basically rinse and repeat and personalise all these communications to like, different people to get your stuff out there. But then you know that that’s the kind of work that needs to be done to spread the word. So when a bad PR person does your PR, and it doesn’t go anywhere, and all they send you is like a really basic spreadsheet of things, or places that they’ve sent your music, you know, that it’s not worth the money, and you can call them out on it, or just not work with them again, you know, you know, you know, you’re a better judge of… you’re able to protect yourself in many more ways, basically.

Jocelle:
Definitely. I think, for me, that would actually be like, the reason why I support like, independent artistry the most as well. Like, for me, independent artists are like, entrepreneurs, actually, all artists are entrepreneurs. I feel like because at the end of the day, even if you’re signed with a major label, the moment you leave, you then have to take care of your own career. So I think that it’s really important to, like be present in the process. Because if you then get like, […] if you get fucked over, then to me to an extent, like you have to be held responsible for your own for like, what happened.

Yeo:
There’s a lot of integrity in that, I think. that yeah, but if you… yeah, you don’t want it to get messy. You don’t want to get fucked. And it happens.

Jocelle:
And it’s like, there’s so much information like available nowadays. Like, I just think that there’s always that option. Like, what, what’s stopping you from like, taking it a little bit slow and not trying to accelerate and like, get too many people on board? Like, just understand your process before. Like, you really jump step in and like make a huge decision, right?

Yeo:
That’s right, you keep it organic. So it’s when you can’t handle the workload anymore. It’s pulling you away from your creative work is that is the time when you know that maybe you do need a hand in a certain area. Yeah. It’s an interesting climate at the moment for artists like, like social media is such a heavy requirement. And you know, with labels and stuff like that, they really push that on to you. Also, I hear , there’s a lot of kind of rebellion at the moment, I feel I’m seeing online as well through social media.

Jocelle:
I guess it’s kind of like, the only way that labels can get artists to be accountable, like show some kind of feedback, which but I mean, it’s not I don’t think it’s the right way to measure accountability. But I think that may be one of the reasons and definitely to an extent I think it is perpetuated by the fact that we are in like a digital streaming market because like all the time, when the you know when like platforms support you they’re like, oh, we want the artist to post about the music, that kind of thing, which makes sense because they’re businesses, but you know, I think it definitely you know, it exacerbates that a little bit more.

Yeo:
Yeah. And don’t get me wrong, lazy artists exist. I work with heaps, like as people who are just awful with communication and awful getting back to you and say that they’ll do something and then they don’t do it. And you just like, [sighs]

Jocelle:
Yeah, we’ve all been there. Yeah. All the time. But I remember like, when did you start working with Vivan your manager?

Yeo:
I can’t even I can’t remember. She was an assistant manager for a little while. I can’t even believe that my team had that many levels. But yeah, for a little while, she was like, helping my main manager, do their job. And then eventually, it kind of became clear to me because I knew how to do it all. It became clear to me that Vivan was doing all the work anyway. So I was like, you should just do the job. And then take 20% of the 10 or whatever we were spending, I can’t remember. But I haven’t looked back.

Jocelle:
What was the moment for you where you were like, “Alright, I need to get someone to help me with my career as an artist”?

Yeo:
Ah, I just remember replying to a lot of emails. So many emails and, and it wasn’t like… Yeah, I think I think after the label approach as well, because I was like, I probably felt like I messed it up a little bit. It would have been good to have a buffer between me and an A&R person. I think that I can see now why people want to manager probably before they’re ready because wanting the buffer is a comfort thing. It’s like a blanket. But yeah, I still feel like you kind of got to brave it all yourself for a little while first. So you realise how tough it is. And you learn about yourself too, in the process, and like what you’re good at and what you’re bad at. But yeah, it was definitely the emails. It was like, “Why is this so much unread stuff in my inbox, and I have to go through it all?” And I can’t just write music.

Jocelle:
So maybe when the business aspect starts to like, take over too much from the creative.

Yeo:
That’s right. Yeah.

Jocelle:
Interesting. Anyway, back to some lighter the topics. So I heard that you’re performing at the ASEAN festival? I think, actually, funny thing, I asked Krystal how she knows you, and she was like, I saw him perform in 2019. And she was like, Oh, like this guy. He has like a funny accent. Like, why is he talking like that? And then when you set up playing she was like, oh shit. This is awesome. But I think we were both at that show you did in 2019. The one with Charlie. Right?

Yeo:
SG Muso. I was at OCBC Hub.

Jocelle:
Yeah, right, the one at OCBC Hub. So yeah, that’s like the last time I saw you perform live. And is that the last time you’ve performed in Singapore?

Yeo:
I think so. Yeah.

Jocelle:
How does it feel? Like, are you Is there anything particularly you’re looking forward to performing back in Singapore again?

Yeo:
We’ve got a new tech setup on stage as well. Where Vivan, my manager, actually DJs behind me. And, you know, like, manipulates my backing tracks so that they transition into each other nicely, and gives me extra energy on stage as well, like, supports me in that way. And, yeah, it’s just so much easier. As set up and pack down and stuff and, and now like, we don’t really party anymore. You know, like we used when we toured in mid 20s and stuff, we would get really drunk and like, just stay out all night and not get any sleep and then get on a plane and go to the next city and stuff like that. This is all in Australia. But like now, we just want to eat good food, you know, find a place for dessert, be in bed not too late, stuff like that. And even just travelling is really fun, travelling for shows, heaps of fun, like, yeah, like the last big tour that I went on overseas for music was Ecuador.

Jocelle:
Oh yeah. 2018? 2019?

Yeo:
2018 I think. Yeah. Yeah, around that yeah.

Jocelle:
Wow. Anyway, I know you mentioned good food. Is there anything in particular you’re looking forward to like having this time that you’re back?

Yeo:
Last time I was here, I missed out on a really good, mee sua. Yeah I’m trying to find BK eating house. This was years ago when I was here producing with M1LDL1FE. They took me to this place on like, circular or something and it was like some of the best noodles I’ve had. And I’ve since heard that it’s moved or has changed hands or something like that. So I’m like, I miss those noodles.

Jocelle:
Oh, any chance you can hunt them down?

Yeo:
I’m sure there’ll be. There’s a place called Eat Three Bowls that’s meant to have mee sua. I actually went there last time I was here, so a couple of months ago, but they were sold out of mee sua. So I just settled with the chicken rice, which wasn’t too bad.

Jocelle:
Hope you get your mee sua this time then. And I also heard that you’re really good cook. So I wanted to ask, like, what are your favourite, like Southeast Asian dishes to cook?

Yeo:
I’m an enthusiastic cook, I wouldn’t say that. I’m like, great. I like feeding people. So I really enjoyed doing it. Chicken rice is probably one of my favourite things to make. Big time. But like lately, I’ve learned how to make a Malaysian curry, chicken curry like, pretty well. And I was like, surprised by my own efforts. It used to be my mum could make it, and I didn’t know how she made it. And I’d just be like, how does she get it like this? And then after it took me about two or three tries and then I got it just in my adult life, I guess. Yeah, and after accumulating a few extra skills in the kitchen I finally learned how to do things.

Jocelle:
Nice. I’ve eaten a lot of chicken curry. And the one thing I’ve learned is like everyone’s chicken curry is different, but they can all make it nice and like their own unique way, if they try, if there’s love in it. That’s what I’ve learned.

Yeo:
Yeah. Yeah. I’ve been through lots of phases with Southeast Asian cooking like because when I was like, 24, I moved into apartment by myself. And that was like when I really started learning how to cook at home. Before then, it was like, really basic, terrible Australian teenager cooking.

Jocelle:
Beans on toast?

Yeo:
Similar, tuna on rice. The first complicated thing I made was a laksa. And I actually did it quite well just because I followed the recipe, step by step to the nth degree and then it like turned into a laksa, and I was like, I did pretty good. If just follow the steps I will get this result. And then from there it snowballed. Over many years. Still lots of disasters, lots of disasters in the kitchen.

Jocelle:
I see. Now I’m craving laksa. But anyway, my last question for you, do you have anything you’re working on at the moment that you’d like to share with our audiences?

Yeo:
Yes, it’s been a really kind of tough year for creativity. I think a lot of people could probably sympathise with me when I say that, there has been a very big lack of motivation, kind of across the board. I think a lot of people felt that way since the pandemic and even the third year of it, you know, coming before the four years soon, that I’ve been chipping away slowly at a record. So that’s what I’m working on. In the grand scheme of things I want to release a full length LP. But there’s a specific song on there right now that I’m chipping away at and it’s it’s a song in Mandarin with an artist from Shanghai called Melodia Kong. And this one has also been on and off the shelf for a long time. And she’s very patient with me, so I’m very grateful to even have that connection. Thanks to you. You hooked us up.

Jocelle:
Why do you have to like I was like, look at me pretending to be surprised. Yeah, anyway go on.

Yeo:
Yeah. Shout out to Jocelle. Yeah, that one, but it’s, yeah. I’m in this phase where working on my own stuff, I’m finding it really hard to decide whether I like something or not. But I feel like I’m making progress. So I’m going to keep chipping away at it, and it should be done.

Jocelle:
We look forward to it. It’s been, I think, since 2019, right? That was when the last long LP was out. Anyway, thanks Yeo for joining us. We’ve got some snacking coming up.

Yeo:
Yes. I’m excited.
Thanks for having me Jocelle.

Jocelle:
Thanks for being here.

-end of transcript-

Disclaimer: This transcript has been edited for clarity purposes.

Watch the interview on Asian Pop Weekly’s YouTube Channel

Listen to Everywhere and Nowhere live on Indiego 9pm to 12am SGT every third Thursday of the month, and on demand anytime on Spotify and iTunes! Follow Yeo on Instagram, Twitter, his official website or check out his music on Spotify, bandcamp, or YouTube.